Passion Sundays

World’s leading consultant Ram Charan shares the secret sauce for pursing passion

Described by Jack Welch as “the man that can distinguish the meaningful from the meaningless and teach it in an effective way.”
Ram says: “There is not need to set goals.”

Ram Charan is the bestselling author 15 books which sold over 2 million copies including Leadership in the Era of Economic Uncertainty and Know How and Execution
He has helped to define and popularize the idea of Business Acumen, he is Distinguished Fellow of the National Academy of Human Resources, winner of Champion of Workplace Learning and Performance Award by the American Society for Training & Development
His secret sauce to passion is:

  • Be honest with your self, its easier said than done
  • Stay persistent till you find out what you are good at
  • Listen to your inner calling

He says “do not set goals; look for what gives you intrinsic satisfaction and the right goals will come. Don’t expect rewards, rewards will come”.
Enjoy this amazingly insightful interview and then share it and spread the love.
Live Passionately,
Moustafa Hamwi
The Passion Guy


Guest – Mr. RAM CHARAN

Hello everyone and welcome back to Passion Sunday.
My guest today has been described by Jack Welsh as a man who can distinguish the meaningful from the meaningless and teach it to people in a very effective way. He has been described by the media as the man with real world solutions through his books and teachings which you can apply on a Monday morning. Sounds pretty much like a kind of a guest we want to talk too. He is New York times best-selling author who sold over 2 million copies of his books. He coaches and consults with world’s leading CEO’s. With me today is Mr. Ram Charan.
Moustafa: Mr. Ram welcome!
Ram Charan: Thank you. I am glad to be here.
Moustafa: Thank you very much, it’s an honor to have you here and have such a legend with us and as I might have explained to you, the show is about helping people stay motivated and engaged in their business and their lives and any company and any successful CEO wants to stay engaged and achieve their goals. And the first question is – How do you see the relation between passion and achieving goals and being successful in life?
Ram Charan: The important part in life, people have to be honest with themselves. It’s easier said than done. They should have some friends who will make an individual see in the mirror and get an honest feedback. These friends should tell you like it is. These friends should tell you what you are good at, what you are not good at. Keep discovering what you are good at and do not discard that item because in the short run you may not be succeeding. The courageous leaders, individuals, all go through hurdles but they need to continue to discover what they are good at and then what they need to be practiced to be better at and that is the souce of secret life.
Moustafa: Amazing, and you mentioned something may be important which is not quitting and staying on the path even when we get stuck. However, there is always a question of how do you know if you are actually on the right path?
Ram Charan: I think you will find in life to listen to your inner voice you can’t wait to get out of bed when you are on the right path, there’s an inner intrinsic satisfaction that you say I think I really love it, I want to do it,I’ve got difficulties. So, across the globe particularly in India and Hollywood, most of the actors who became very successful, they found their way through hardships but they knew they want to be actors. So in India we have these people coming from great poverty, moving from one part of India to another struggling their way into Mumbai but they wanted to be actor, they wanted to be musicians, one I just read a biography who wanted to be a director failed in 3 movies but he knew his interest lied in making movies and when he succeeded it remains for 50 years the most classic movie. That’s what you do.
Moustafa: So obviously what you are saying is this whole passion pursuit of passion and pursuit of a calling is not a lofty dream that you happen by itself as something that one has to invest the time and effort and focus on the vacation to make it happen.
Ram Charan: Now the key here is in the Hindu culture which is roughly 70-80% population, we do not set goals. That is the part of eastern culture. We say what will give you intrinsic happiness and the goals will come.
Moustafa: So in your opinion it’s more important actually to pursue that thing which you feel is a calling even more than setting a goal?
Ram Charan: There is no need to set a goal.
Moustafa: Oh wow amazing.
Ram Charan: All western culture is setting goals. Most of the Indian successful people do not set goals. They set in their mind what is your calling, what really gives them energy despite difficulties and then they are absolutely obsessed in practicing it, practicing it, practicing it and that takes them to excellence that gives them higher goals. They say we don’t really expect rewards but the rewards come.
Moustafa: Amazing, that’s very revolutionary what you are saying.
Ram Charan: It is.
Moustafa: And from that perspective should that be the point of view of a leader or everybody across the organization?
Ram Charan: Everybody.
Moustafa: Everybody?
Ram Charan: Everybody.
Moustafa: So, from that point then will it be valuable for a company to say against the usual, I am not going to invest on the systems or procedures as much as I am investing on helping people find that level of engagement and that level of passion?
Ram Charan: Yeah, there are still processes for them to find and allow the people to express what they are calling this. It has begun by the way. In Proctor & Gamble they now post these jobs and anybody can apply to those jobs so people then say this is my calling or if they are too ambitious, they may apply and never win it so that has begun in the companies to have people describe what they want regardless of their hierarchy. So it will be more so in the future. So that has begun.
Moustafa: And would that payback return on investment for the organization?
Ram Charan: Huge, because of the people go to the job where their real calling is, there is a very high return.
Moustafa: And the world is ready for this……this pushback?
Ram Charan: It’s happening.
Moustafa: It’s happening already?
Ram Charan: It’s happening already, yeah. There is no second, it’s happening now.
Moustafa: Wow, amazing. And in your opinion what would distinguish a…..I would say a good friend/coach because you got a very valid point about the friend is that person who will tell you the truth and there are many schools of coaching out there, some of them are in your face type of a coaching. What would distinguish a good coaching?
Ram Charan: I don’t know. I can’t answer that question there are so many varieties.
Moustafa:  Ok. Ok. Understood. And if somebody feels that their calling is not in their current job?
Ram Charan: Move.
Moustafa: Move? Ok.
Ram Charan: People, so long you are honest… the key is, be honest with yourself and if you come to the conclusion that you have the wrong boss and the wrong job, you move.
Moustafa: You move. And you move immediately or is that a…?
Ram Charan: No, you gotta watch it, if you gotta make a living you watch your time, prepare for it.
Moustafa: You’ve got a plan, an action plan or at least have the heart to….
Ram Charan: Make your decision.
Moustafa: Make a decision.

Moustafa: What do you think? I would really love to hear your opinion. If you like to stay engaged subscribe to our social media channels. If you want even more valuable interviews and tips and tricks on how to live passionately then go to and subscribe to our Passion Sundays. Until the next episode, live passionately.

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Hi, I’m Moustafa

Dubai’s real-life “The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari.” On a one-way ticket to India, I’ve gone from meeting a Swami out of 13 years in caves, to natural healing from a disease to become the Passionpreneur. I’m an international speaker and coach helping people find and pursue passion.

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